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Click on image to download a pdf file on the
Fantastic DAIT insulation system!
"Want to know why these competitors
cringe at the mere mention of my name"
If you travel the net, the common thing these days
is for unethical, angry, people to slam each other
in the net and make up stories about people who are
competitors or even have a different set of
ideas. It seems to be the nature of "modern"
people. If you don't know this just go to a
youtube video and read the postings. (This is the
Rosy vs Trump concept) The net is impossible to
police against nonsense ( and words I never heard in
the Bible). All of the spa forums are paid for by
spa, hot tub manufacturing companies, ALL of
them. Pretty much all of the major spa brands
of sales people don't like me because of my work to
educate consumers on hot tubs. The truth is a
form of "insult" to most spa companies.
It is a "Badge
of Courage and Ethics" to be maligned on the
internet for being a whistle
blower and educator of spa/hot tub
I have spent the last 20 years on the net trying to
go against the stream of hype in advertising
that leads people in to buying spas that don't even
last 5 years without major issues. Or are so
cheaply made that you get no features for the money,
and after 7 years it goes in the dump, because the
cost to repair is far more than the tub is
worth. They must figure that by 7 years,
nobody will care any more. (We recently took
in a 7 year old spa "in trade", and the thin ABS /
Acrylic shell is leaking with cracks all
over.) Because I make hot tubs, I am not
allowed to speak about the condition of the
industry. I don't know why, so I do it.
My word on hot tubs can easily be tested by studying
them and then go see for yourself what is good and
what is nonsense, using your intelligence. If
you are technically challenged, you would not
understand that well. Then you are totally at
the mercy of sales and "luck". A lot of
suckers believe in "luck".
Luck does not exist. Emotions vs Logic does exist.
Haven Spas still have the highest resale value of
any hot tub. I would love to have a few used one's
to sell, but they are so rare. Because of the
economy in the USA/Canada, spa factories are closing
(over 150 spa factories closed by from 2001 to
2007). Some of them were pretty good and some no so
good, but the worst are still making spas and
selling to technically challenged people who don't
read this site. Consider yourself fortunate to be
The good news is that I no longer make spas in the
US, and we have been forced to make our spas in
Europe, and it is a good move. We are now, not
only, taking on the European market, we are making
some improvements that are expensive to do because
of the cost of electricity in Europe. We are
keeping the prices down, because we make the whole
spa from scratch.
Here is a really rough video I made of the vacuum
forming machine I designed and built in Europe.
We have electronically tested and charted data now
on our new spas. We managed to get them to
below. 60 Europe Cents per day. That is about
3KWHours per day to maintain. Less than half
the lowest of any other company. This is on a full
size 90 inch spa.
never negated the truth."
All people who speak the truth about any business
and explain factual, backed up with evidence,
things to the public so the public can understand
are not popular with sales people who make a living
selling, (using emotional coercion) weak
products. This happens in all
industries. The best custom made RV's are made
by smaller or medium sized family owned companies.
The best Computers, using the latest and most
advanced parts, are made in small shops (I build my
You can get an extreme custom computer that has the
most powerful and expensive cards, processors, flash
drives, extremely fast main PCI drives, and
amazing video quality and visual and audio fidelity.
But you will pay for it.
I have not seen any amazing product that is mass
produced, except for some cell phones, but they are
The best guitars are made in small batches,
hand made. This is a well known
fact. Large corporation spa companies have so
much glut in wasted money, that it causes them to
make cheap as possible and sell with more hype than
a presidential candidate.
In Gibson factory they have kept that alive with a
"custom shop" with a lot of hand picking (taking
production guitars that are exceptional to start
with) and hand work. This makes for especially sweet
deep toned and rich sounding guitars.
With Haven Spas we have managed to rid ourselves of
all the wasted money on large food chains, spent on
sales, advertising, marketing and rhetoric. We
just make a good product and we don't expect to sell
20 thousands per year.
Our factory is in the "black", with only one piece
of equipment being leased. All the equipment
is owned. This enables us to progress to 1000
spas or more and if the economy goes down, we are
able to continue. This comes from 20 years of
experience with the up's and down's of this crazy
industry. Spas are at the top of the food
chain. When people are worried about buying a
car, or home, they don't buy many spas.
Most of the spas you see today are still around
because they went into receivership or were close to
bankruptcy and were bought out by "vulture
capitalists" who buy distressed companies.
They keep buying spa companies for very low prices
and have been reducing quality to a bare minimum of
cost to manufacture. This is worse now than
ever 2017. Only one company, Haven Spas
(Silver Spas in Holland), has survived and IMPROVED
drastically over these years. All the others
are, in my expert opinion, close to junk with so
many cuts to quality, compared to Haven Spas.
Belief has never negated the
We just teach people about spas and we
know more about hot tubs than any other hot tub
company on earth, this becomes obvious when you own
a Haven Spa. So, you have to be smarter as
well and no fall for "nice polite" sales people who
are telling lies to you, even if they actually
believe the lies. They are still lies. Belief has
never negated the truth.
People accuse me of being blunt and truthful and to
speak my mind. I guess I am ornery, but
that happens when you are me and reach my age and my
level of expertise. I am 69 and in excellent
condition to use the knowledge I have gained.
I keep myself sharp by studying science all the
However, most of the Haven Spas that are 19 years
old now are still running on the original equipment,
with minimal service on them and the shells look
like new as reported by the owners. I have two
of them at my home. As we say: "The proof is
in the pudding." or "The proof is in the over
1600 Haven SilverSpas customers' back yards."
If you were a
competitor, unfortunate enough, to go up against
Haven Spas, the only choice you have is to slam
Haven with negative rhetoric, based on
your own fantasies of what you wish or ,
God forbid, actually believe is / was true.
I have been accused of all sorts of things that
are not true. But there are some believers
in this, that do so because they want to and
their income sort of depends on it.
They are telling people that Haven Spas are
being sued, by owners. Sandy and I are the
owners so, I guess I am suing myself. Is
that what they mean?
HavenSpas are made totally under my control at
our European factory. We now ship them to the
USA in very limited numbers.
I am in charge of the factory. So,
that allows me to make them even better than
ever. We now have exceeded all of the older
Haven Spas in energy efficiency, powerful jets,
longevity and low maintenance.
We had to take it up another notch, in order to
completely take over the market in Europe and USA.
People in the US can buy them but they are shipped
from Rotterdam Holland now, until the US market
comes back. You will pay more than in the
past because of the "dollar" is weak, now. But
since we make them from the sheet of acrylic and
do all of our own fiberglassing drilling assembly
we can offer them at very reasonable prices for
this level of quality, that has never been seen
before in the spa industry.
We have been ETL listed for the entire time,
and now we are TUV listed and CE so we can fit in
the European standards as well. Since I was
the one who turned in this company to the US
Products Safety Commission and to UL for the fires,
the largest hot tub company on earth with the most
dealers and the most money, you can, maybe
understand, why they vilify me so much. All
of the hot tub forums are basically owned by this
If you ever want to know why these competitors
cringe at the mere mention of my name, Jim
Arjuna, or about Haven Spas; it is because we
build actual value and use real applied engineering.
Then we educate people to the nature of the spa
industry and the nature of spas. We educate about
the product. No other company at the present time
does this because they don't know how, nor do they
have the desire or motivation to create or even
understand it. I have found that this is not
the coward's approach. Most
all people who fight for what is right have to
pay dearly for it.
When you expose these "money machines", then
you have to deal with the methods of operation of
denial and positive rhetoric, (what has worked in
the past for them).
I sleep well at night am at peace with myself and
music and have plenty, too many friends all
over the world who appreciate my efforts to clean up
the spa industry. If I publish on the forum
that Sandy and I are taking a trip, I get too many
invitations for dinner and to stay over at
customer's homes. How many hot tub people do
you know like me?
There is one thing they cannot change; the
truth. The truth is that the spa industry is
full of sales hype, and what is known as
is a downright shame, how these companies operate
with ONLY concern for the "all mighty dollar".
This has to change because the US is turning from a
moral society of laws based on the Judaeo
Christian religion, to one of money. It
has been heading that way for too long. I
believe that the "Golden Rule" is the best rule for
life. I have paid dearly for standing up
against these "ethically challenged people".
All people who stand up for what is representative
of a higher love for mankind are scorned by those
who are not . I could just keep quiet, but
that is not like me, no matter how they vilify me on
"I never do
anything according to nor listen to people who
are more messed up than I am."
We go way beyond what is necessary in
all our products in every way. In this world I am a
contradiction: a businessperson who actually cares
about our customers on a personal level. When I took
sales seminars, years ago they taught that that was
a big NO NO to be personal with the people you sell
to. I never do anything nor listen to people who are
more messed up than I am. That is the one thing I
got out of sales seminars that stuck. When some
miserable sales guy is telling you how to get rich
by playing mind games, like he did, it turns me off.
"If money is more important than the work,
then you need to find another job, in my humble
When one of our spas is delivered to
one of our customers it is an expression of care and
concern in all ways. It is an actual joy to know
what it is I am giving to them. It is more
important to have a clear conscience than to have
anxiety over all the people one might have
manipulated, like the "rich sales guy". I
could never sleep well nor could I face my Maker if
I were like that.
Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with
earning an honest living and doing a good job. If
money is more important than the work and the joy of
progressing in a good direction in your skills and
knowledge, then you need to find another job, in my
humble opinion. Life is too short to not enjoy
it. Every ask an old person how long their life has
been. "I blinked and I was old."
"Most of the
large corporate business spa companies seem to
run on the profit first above and beyond any
Most of the large corporate business spa companies
seem to run on the profit first above and beyond the
ethics. They actually believe that they must
manipulate the truth a bit to get paid and they get
paid a lot more than they deserve. The marketing
people and the engineers design ways to fool people
into a "perceived value" that extracts money from
consumers. To the large corporate spa company it is
sort of a "vacuum cleaner game" in which the "vacuum
cleaner" is the advertising, hype and rhetoric,
inferences and implications. Anything that "sucks"
the dollars out of the consumer's wallet.
buy on emotion or because you feel obligated to
the "Nice" salesman."
Sales people are taught to take time and to create a
false sense of obligation to buy from them.
They will take the slow route to make sure you don't
leave without buying and that you feel obligated to
them for spending so much of the salesperson's
time. It is a sales "trick", well known.
This condition of the spa industry is only because
the spa shoppers do not know much about spas and
everybody I talk to seems to want one, as soon as
they discover what hot tubs do. So, since there is a
demand for a product that most consumers don't have
a clue about, the consumers are at the mercy of some
of the "nicest" (sarcasm) sales people, who play
mind games with consumers and use consumer ignorance
while using emotional sales content to extract
money. Don't ever buy on emotion or because
you feel obligated to the "Nice" salesman. AND
never believe they hype of magical (paid for) awards
and such. That is the oldest trick in the sales
book. If you read my book and this site, you
will then know more than any spa salesman.
I am hoping to change all this in time. One student
at a time. The only thing that works is the truth,
but first you have to know the truth, that is the
catch. There are plenty of spa owners who think I am
a terrible person, because they love their spas that
they bought, thinking they were the "best". When
they found my writings, it didn't help there
situation, because they already spent their "spa
dollars". That truly is unfortunate for them,
but they seem to want to justify what they bought.
It seems to be human nature. Many of them will
never buy a spa again, because of the
I had a fellow contact me after his very expensive
Sun#@c$ spa crapped out in five years and he moved
and left it at the "old house". He contacted
me about 5 years later after the purchase and said,
that now he wants a real hot tub. He apologized for
being upset with me on the forum when I told him his
original spa was a mistake. I lose a lot of
people with my blunt approach. Sorry!
I really can't help it. Maybe it is a form of
Tourette’s Syndrome? One where I blurt out the
I am going to make this into an article. It is my
story about how I got into the spa industry.
I started working in high tech jobs at the age of 18
years old after graduating from high school. My
first job was at Lockheed Missiles and Space (Spas)
in Sunnyvale, CA. I was very fortunate to work in
the research and development at Lockheed. I worked
along side of the best that Lockheed had. The
engineers and the crafts people were the "elite" of
Lockheed, because these prototype projects are what
makes or breaks the company. Being a "techno-junky"
I fit in very well. I worked on the mock up, and the
prototypes of the Deep Quest and DSRV (Deep
Submergence Rescue Vehicle) oddly enough much of it
was dealing with water, steel, titanium, magnesium
alloy, aluminum, fiberglass and plumbing. HMM? I
have a photo somewhere of me standing in front of
I went to college at night and had many nights where
I didn't sleep much, studying for tests and deeply
involved in electronics, mathematics and engineering
subjects. (I was married and had a family to
support). Work started at 7 and class finished at 10
PM. I can remember wondering to myself: "How did I
get myself into this?" (I still do that today.)
I worked and studied hard and became one step below
a master in my work, in less than two years at
Lockheed. I worked on the actual product with my
hands and all the fantastic tools of the trade. When
I was tired of getting all the hard jobs that I was
not fully paid for I filed a grievance through the
union. The union was not really with me on this, but
it was my only avenue to get paid for my level of
work. Labor Unions usually want you to go through 4
years of apprenticeship then a couple more years
before you get paid for the level of work I was
performing. At the age of 20 I was given a project
that was the most difficult as a "test" to qualify
for journeyman. I was given a sketch from an
engineer with minimal instructions to build a three
dimensional thing that looked like a bird with wings
going in several angles at once. I built it and it
fit perfectly in less than four hours from pieces of
flat metals. It was within 10/1000 of one inch in
precision. (My math courses paid off!) It had a half
cylinder, with wings and had to support a lot of
stress during its use. This device was a support for
the valves that were used to pump the water in and
out of the bell at the bottom of the rescue
submarine vehicle. It had to be lightweight and very
strong. That bell fit over the hatch of the
submarine in distress. My "valve support" became the
prototype for all of these devices. The engineer
actually took the prototype and used it to finish
the drawings. They thought that it would end my
quest to break the system, but it actually got my
raise, so I could take care of my family better. I
was at that time being paid twice what my original
wages were and I earned every cent.
From then on I worked on all the difficult parts of
the submarine, using the most advanced tooling and
machines. The cheapest part I worked on costs
$35,000 in 1968 (equal to over $350,000
today). (All while studying mechanical and
electrical engineering at night.) It was the
titanium yoke ring that held the steel spheres in
place and it was drilled within 10/1000 of an inch
spacing on a large circle about 3 feet in diameter
and the holes had to be with no tolerance because a
titanium bolt was pounded into the holes and had to
fit perfectly with no stress on the holes. All of
the holes were drilled independent of each other and
all of them fit perfectly when assembled. It
required tremendous patience and skill. The holes in
the mating parts could no be drilled while it was
clamped together as "one hole, passing through
both. They actually thought it was near
impossible. I made a tool to do this job with.
It had "High Teague" fasteners which are pounded
into the material so they have zero space on the
wall of the hole and the metal fastener. Sort
of like welding it into one piece with NO movement.
I went to school and studied electronics, math
science, mechanical and electrical
engineering, physics and photography, because
I love electronics and photography. When I was 27 I
went to work as a videocassette and Television
Camera repair person, I went to Sony in Southern
California for training. In those days, the Video
Cassette machines barely worked and were a monster
of circuit boards and motors. They used a servo
system to control the speed of the heads against the
tape. The brakes were made of leather to pull
tension on the tape, just right. The darn things
were always just out of calibration. They sold for
about $6,000 (about $30,000 in today's money) in
those days and the ones we have now, (which have
been replaced by DVD) are $100 for a device that
runs for years without problems. In those days you
fixed the circuit boards on site. There were no
spare circuit boards that you just drop in. That
came later. We repaired at the bottom line or
I am sticking with work projects in this
Later I worked in Graphic arts in the reproduction
of photos and color slides using "analog computers"
that produced film separations, using a pulsating
xenon light source. I mastered that in about a year.
I read every technical book there was on color
reproductions. Now we have cameras that product
color separations directly on computers. I actually
invented a camera that used video basis and made
automatic color separations at the original scene,
but there was no way to build it at the time. There
were no computers that could process the data fast
enough before the "people moved" or the light
changed. My concept was a direct color separation
camera that didn't need to be reproduced from film.
I never pursued the idea, darn it! Eventually color
reproduction went from film separations with masks
to color scanners that used a laser beam to separate
colors on a drum. Now, I don't think those even
exist any more.
By the way, my dad had two patents for clever things
in his day. One was a "tram" for aligning automobile
wheels "in the field" and gets them within
acceptable tolerances on the caster, camber and
I got into computers in 1974 as I recall. Started
making programs for fun and games in BASIC. By 1992
I was programming in "C" and "C++" for fun, just to
see if I could do it. I learned it from books and by
doing it. I don't have any time for that sort of fun
these days. I loved working in "C" compared to the
older languages, because your creativity is nearly
unlimited by the ability to create functions and
libraries and all that good stuff. I used to write
programs to figure the harmonic calculations of
planetary and asteroid positions in space around a
location for a split second of time. The program
using a complicated set of algorithms and
instructions, would spit out 300 pages of data for
one time at one location in 9 pt font from edge to
edge top to bottom, showing all the exact degrees
between all the planets from a harmonic of 2 to 90.
The accuracy of the program was amazing to me. I'll
bet you have no idea what I am talking about. But I
enjoyed the process of learning to do it. Most
people when I told them what I was "working on"
thought I was nuts. I didn't care, it kept my brain
learning and enjoying science.
I actually sold computers in 1980 for a company
called OSM Computer company in Santa Clara
California for a few months. I could not understand
why these business owners didn't' see the greatness
of computers for business. They were afraid of them
and that greatly limited the sales, until people
started figuring out the time saving and the
accuracy of business software. We had the state of
the art at that time. 32 K of memory and 8 bit
processors, and programs that loaded and unloaded
from memory while using a 10-megabyte hard drive
that was nearly the size of a TV set. It could do
all the accounting for any small to medium sized
business for about 10% the cost of an accounting
department. The accounting departments particularly
didn't like me, because they saw it as a machine
that was taking away their jobs. The software in
those days was precise and very clean. There was no
wasted space in the memory of the computer.
I went to work for a reproduction company in
Monterey Park California in 1980 after busting out
in the "computer sales". We did the reproductions
for many of the record labels that you are all
familiar with. We did the posters for movies, and
all sorts of high end graphic arts stuff. It was a
fun job. I used to get all the complicated record
album covers with tons of color transitions.
Every once in a while I'll still see an old
"Motown", "RCA" or "Warner Brothers" record album
that I did.
In 1983 I came to Colorado, and it was like going
into the distant past, when it came to "high tech"
jobs. It was also a time of economic
depression. I got a job working at a large printing
company in Denver, while commuting from Boulder. I
was a supervisor in the preparation department. But
that only lasted a year; the commute was horrible
and NOBODY wanted to work for that guy. We had to
run ads in Chicago to get employees, cause the "word
was out." I did the best I could to keep my guys
from getting the "hell" from the boss. We simply
were the best prep department he ever had. I quit
that job one day after the boss humiliated one of my
workers and I told the boss basically that he was
not a smart person, nor was he a nice person. I
basically told him he was a "dumb a##hole". His
company folded in less than a year after that.
I worked for a little while in a printing shop in
Boulder then went into the electrical field. I was
tired of not working steady. I ran a small
electrical contracting business from my home. We
built a special office and parts storage area and
bought a van and everything. It was then that I
learned to appreciate spas! We had this old hot tub
in the ground that was installed in 1976. It had a
swimming pool gas heater on it and pool pump and
heater, with four jets. It cost about $100 a month
to keep it functional in winter just for the natural
gas. It was not energy efficient by any means. But I
enjoyed that tub because it helped my back and neck
that I have had problems with since I was a child.
(The MD's speculate that I had a "mild" case of
Polio as a child.) Working as an electrician did not
help, but it did aggravate my back almost daily. I
had been on a first name basis with chiropractors
for many years. Since then I discovered how to put
my back in place and started using hot tubs, I have
not been to a chiropractor since 1991. Did I tell
you that I am a living testimonial to the benefits
Any way, it was while I was an electrician that I
really began to appreciate the benefits of spas and
I started to repair them "on the side" just from
being in the vicinity of hot tubs while doing
electrical work….. Sort of like this: the customer
would ask: "Do you know anything about Hot Tubs?"
Then they would ask me to take a look at it. With
both electronics and electrical/mechanical
engineering and technician training, it was a
natural thing for me. I would "reverse engineer" the
control system and fix them. The old
mechanical/pneumatic controls were easy for me.
Litterally hundreds of wires all interconnected with
timers, air switches, relays, pressure switches,
high limits, and so many variations of design from
every company who made spas.
I have worked on most every generation of spa
equipment and most all the brands of heaters, pumps,
blower, control systems made from the early 80 to
the present time (except for the newest from
Right now I am developing a new control PCB and
system for our spas. There are no controls out
that do everything I want and most of them are WEAK,
with too small of components. I rate
everything to 1.5 to 2 times overkill. I think
it comes from dealing with aircraft that must have
overkill in all parts. But this is why, today, we
have spas running on the same controls after 15 to
18 years. (This
control I don't think will ever wear out. The
only time we had an issue with it was an electrical
storm with lots of lightening took out the control
After a while I met Sandy, one of the best days of
my life! She is a blessing from God!
While we were engaged to be married, she asked me to
go check out her parent's hot tub up at the family
mountain home. When I saw what was wrong, I decided
to change the whole control system and build a new
one because it was a typical spa company mess with
incorrect relays and wrong switches. That spa was
constantly breaking down. The only place in the area
that had all the parts I needed was in Denver, so I
drove down to Denver and stopped in to buy the
While I was at the counter, I showed the fellow
behind the counter the diagram and asked him for all
the parts. He had all the parts I needed except for
the box to put the parts in, but he suggested an
electrical parts store to get the box. Then he said:
"We are looking for a service manager for our
company." It turns out that the guy behind the
counter was the owner of the store. Apparently he
recognized my skills by what he had seen.
I found out later that he was an out of work
computer engineer who had lived in Boulder for a
while and started fixing hot tubs out of necessity,
many years prior to my meeting with him. He became
one of the best hot tub and spa repair guys in the
state, maybe in the country. He had been repairing
and building wood tubs and installing hot tubs for
some time and eventually he opened a store and
service center in Denver. I can appreciate his
genius, and he understood that.
"but I really
got into the spa business in a "trial by fire"
sort of learning lesson"
It was a series of events that led me to go to work
for this spa store, but I really got into the spa
business in a "trial by fire" sort of learning
lesson. Everyone in the store was willing to help me
learn to do the job, and I had some of the most
experienced service people in the state working with
me, including a fellow with 16 years of experience
and another who was the ex-Sundance spa service
manager. After taking care of several thousands of
spa repairs, I got to know spas, and what I found
out wasn't exactly pretty. I was totally
disappointed with most of the spas. It seemed like
there was no real brains used in the spa industry to
build better spas. I kept seeing the same problems
over and over, problems that could be solved with
some moderate applied engineering.
I came across the concept of thermal closed spas
when the store became a Coleman Dealer in late 1994.
It was an interesting revelation to me about spa
insulation, because before that I had been under the
illusion that full foam was the best and most energy
efficient. I really believed it at the time.
"She lived in the mountains near Denver and it
was 25 below zero F for several days that
One day in late Feb. 1995 I got a call from a lady
who had just bought a Coleman model 60 and she
called to "complain". She said that her spa had
raised her electric bill by $28 (Twenty Eight
dollars) and she was upset because "the salesman
told here that the spa would cost about $20 per
month". I quickly reassured her that $28 was not
unusual for winter in Colorado and that the salesman
meant to say; "it will cost on year around
average about $20 per month.".
She lived in the mountains near Denver and it was 25
below zero F for several days that month. This Model
60 had no foam insulation on the outside wall of the
spa at all. It had about 1 to 2 inches of foam on
the shell and about 1 inch on the floor. The only
insulation on the outside wall was 3/8 of plywood
and about 1/8 inch of redwood laminated to it. This
was a basic Coleman model then and it is far better
made that the "new" ones.
It was then that I started my investigation on how
this worked. That spa was one of the most energy
efficient spas I (at that time) had heard of and it
cost less to run that any of the full foam customer
reports that year. The store had both full foam and
the Coleman "Thermo-Lock" spas.
In 1995 Coleman had the best product made and in my
opinion the 95 was the peak of Coleman's product
quality. I was the service manager for the Coleman
store and I didn't have much warranty on the 95's at
all. 96 started with lots of problems, because
Coleman was in financial trouble. It was in the
news. They started cutting the quality of the
product to make the spa factory profitable if
possible. That was the wrong move, in my opinion. I
believe if they had built up on the quality,
eventually it would have paid off. Coleman
Spas in 95 were some of the most expensive to buy,
but were so much better than all of the Southern
California junk that year.
In 96 they went from 2x4's and nearly 3/4 inch skirt
to 2x2's and a sliver of redwood on OSB board for
the skirt (still a much better product than the rest
at that time.). They changed the pumps motors to
Emerson, and had all sorts of pump overheat
problems. They shortened the skirt, then they came
out with copy cat's models of Hot Spring, with no
air injection and it just got worse and worse.
Cheaper jets, and fittings. The Coleman company was
sold and then the spa factory was sold to MAAX of
Canada. Coleman spas was gone for good. They are now
using the Coleman name but they are nothing like the
original 1995 models that were the best as far as
construction. I guess it takes a lot of
cheapening of a product to make a profit.
Since I worked in service and still oversee our
service department, I learn by other people's
mistakes and by their successes.
In late 1996 I delivered my first of the new models
from Coleman to Tom, the chief of police in Boulder.
It was a 411 model. While we were delivering it on a
dolly up the side of his house, the side of the spa
caved in and the wood cracked. It was embarrassing!
They took out all the 2x4 structure and replaced it
with 2x2 and 2x1 at at base. If you want to know why
I insist on 2x3, 2x4 and 2x6 (100mm x 150x 100x 170
in Europe now) structure and extra structure
on two sides that can be used for dollying the spa,
that is it. How much extra does it cost to use 2x4
frames vs 2x2 frames per spa? Last time I checked it
was about $30 extra to use full size frames. If you
are a bean counting spa company selling 7,000 spas
that is a cost of $210,000 extra. Can a spa be made
with 2x2's and hold up? Yes, but not as long as
2x4's to 2x 6's.
Each and every part
of a Haven spa has a history and a reason why we
have to have them made the way we do.
One of my favorite stories about leak repairs and
what really cleared up any doubts about how bad a
full foam spa is to repair was this story:
I got a call from a lady who had brought out her H##
Sp###g spa with her from California. It was shipped
by a moving company on it's side. She filled it with
water and it was leaking quite a bit, so naturally
she called the largest service center in Colorado,
where I worked and asked us to come up and fix it. I
scheduled her on the "board" and gave the call to
Todd, a very experienced service technician. I
figured, no big deal, he can handle it.
At the end of the day he came back from his service
calls and came in and "chewed me out" about giving
him a leaking H## Sp###g spa to fix. He basically
told me to never give him one of those pieces of
#$%$ (excrement) to work on when they are leaking.
He said: "Give it to Terry or someone else" (another
service tech). I really was quite surprised at his
demeanor, until I had the opportunity to fix a
leaking H## Sp###g spa myself. Then I understood. It
is an awful job, and even worse in winter.
I got to dig
out enough full foam spas to really appreciate
the concept of a spa that is designed to be
fixed, instead of thrown out.
When Sandy and I started The Spa Specialist., we
worked out of my garage doing repairs, then we
opened a, 5,000 Sq Ft store but still had and
have a focus on repairing all brands of spas, except
we don't fix leaking full foam spas any more and
here is the reason:
About 15 years ago I sent my guys out to fix an
older leaking Hot Spring spa. The spa was a gift
from this woman's mother. The mother had decided to
give the old H## Sp###g spa to her daughter and buy
a new H## Sp###g spa (How foolish is that?). The old
one had a "small leak" according to the daughter. It
took us about six trips (2 hours each) to finish the
repairs on this 10 year old spa. The parts of course
were all exclusive and since we had to dig out a
huge part of the structure of the spa (the foam
is the cheap structure) we had to replace it with
new foam at $50 per cubic foot. The repair came to
just under $1,000 of hard work. When the customer
got the bill, I thought she was going to slap me!
She was so angry about the cost, even though I
had warned her from the beginning that it was very
that doing repairs on H## Sp###g spas was a terrible
idea, especially leaks to repair a leaking H##
She refused to pay us unless I cut the price on the
bill. After I cut more than half the price off the
bill, so she would give us something, she was still
angry and thought we were crooks. Since we were also
trying to get a name for ourselves in the community
as good service people, and we were starting to sell
spas, I realized that doing repairs on H## Sp###g
spas was a terrible idea, especially leaks. It is a
no win situation! Even though we did a great job of
finding the leak and fixing it, we were maligned for
or efforts and hard work! (The serviceman's
We do not repair leaks in a full foam spa of any
kind. We learned our lesson. If you want to be
looked upon badly, go fix leaking full foam spas and
try to make a living at it. Your own customers, whom
you did good work for, will spread the word that you
are a rip off artist, because, as the daughter in
the illustration said: "It was only a small leak!
How could it cost so much to fix??" We don't charge
anything to fix leaking full foam spas, because we
refuse to work on them.! We also refuse to sell
them, if there is any use of structural foam.
"We don't charge anything to fix leaking full
foam spas, because we refuse to work on them!"
If you read the reasons for full foam in the H##
Sp###g or "DimWits 1" literature, you will see a
bunch of reasons, and the last reason they mention
is "structural integrity". Their only reason for
using such high density foam is to hold the cheap
shell from collapsing under the load of water.
Their only reason for using such high density
foam is to hold the cheap shell from collapsing
under the load of water. Why did this come about?
So, if a Thermally SealedTM
style of spa is as energy efficient, and it is easy
to repair, because the parts are not hidden in foam,
why use full foam at all? That was a question that
caused me to think the spa industry was sorely
lacking in intelligence! I found out the reasons
behind the concept of stuffing the underside of the
shell with foam by doing research into the distant
past of early portable spas from as far back as
The way I do research is to ask everybody who has
been in the industry for any length of time. I got
some of the information on this from people who
worked for these early companies.
Apparently, back in those days, fiberglass shells
used in spas were more expensive and had problems
with surface blemishes over time. The standard for
fiberglass was to make a lay up on a reverse mold of
the tub. This is sort of like placing the fiberglass
on the backside of a bowl. A release agent was
placed on the mold so that after the fiberglass was
cured; you could pull the shell off the mold. In
those days there were no "reverse moldings" because
the mod was a male and the fiberglass was the
female. After the fiberglass shell was taken off the
mold it was finished by applying fiberglass swimming
pool paint, and was called "gel coat". These shells
were actually quite OK and the customers used them
for many years (over 10+ yrs) , before they needed
to be refinished. When the shell started showing
"black spots" or started showing surface cracks, it
could be sanded and refinished with a new coating of
swimming pool paint. The fiberglass underneath could
be used for many years (30-50 Yrs.). The problem was
the cost for this type of shell construction. The
only places where I saw these shells were in
expensive houses and the spas were made in the late
1970's and the early 1980's. You can still get a
fiberglass coated shell from a couple of fiberglass
swimming pool companies, but they are no where near
as complicated in jet possibilities or as beautiful
as a modern acrylic spa. "The
very successful portable spas were actually a
Those fiberglass spas were all "custom installed" in
homes. The equipment was normally placed in a
separate room or in the garage. The equipment
followed the swimming pool style of a separate
heater, separate pump, and separate filter that was
plumbed in line. That equipment was and is
expensive. It is the same type used in commercial
installations only the heaters, pumps and filters
were smaller than in commercial spas. My first hot
tub was made like this. It had a shell that was in
the ground with four jets, about mid back. A 250K
BTU natural gas swimming pool heater heated it and
it had a single speed swimming pool pump on it and a
cartridge swimming pool filter on it. It was also
very expensive to use because of the heat
loss. It had a "light switch" to turn on the
pump. That was all.
Considering how rare spa parts were in those days,
and how much it cost to build a fiberglass "gel
coat" shell, it is no wonder that the first portable
spas were made as cheaply as possible. The first
very successful portable spas were actually a
Find our how to install a hot tub indoors correctly!
"It was the cheapest
way to build at that time, and it still is."
Basically the garage project was a sheet of Rovel
that was heat formed into a shell. It looked like a
"dog dish" with a white inside and the same material
on the outside. Then it was plumbed with 4 jets as I
recall and a small swimming pool pump and a single
element cartridge filter. The underside was filled
with foam to save any of the cost for fiberglass.
The seat was very close to the ground, so that the
water was not held very far up by the foam. The
thing that made this garage project work was the
spas actually cost less than any other manufacturing
method and they worked. It was getting the prices
down that made this work. Before that having a
portable spa in your back yard was not affordable.
It was the cheapest way to build at that time, and
it still is, (Now roto-molding is a bit
cheaper.) Keep that in mind when you shop.
There is nothing wrong with cheap spas, if they are
sold as cheap spas. I would never recommend
purchasing an ABS back shell with only foam, because
the repair costs are immense. The owners are the
one's who suffer from both directions, getting
ripped off on the actual cost of manufacturing with
mark ups of over 4 to 6 times the cost to build, and
when it leaks 4 times the cost to repair.
Update 2017: It now costs a minimum of $3000
to repair one of these broken leaky full foam spas,
and you will not see a dealer doing repairs on them
at the customer's house. They come and pick it
up for a charge and take it in to the shop.
The plan of course is to get you to buy a new POS
spa from them when they come and pick up your old
spa for "repair evaluation". They sort of hold
it "hostage" while waiting for you to decide to buy
a new one. Almost, nobody, spends $3000 to
$4000 to repair a 7 year old leaking spa that might
sell for $1000 on the used market. This method
of taking your spa in for repair evaluation is more
Since that time (early 1980's) the acrylic with
fiberglass backing spas were starting to show up
with varying success starting in the early 80's.
Before that it failed most of the time. In the
beginning of acrylic, the biggest problem was
getting the fiberglass to adhere to the acrylic and
to stop moisture from getting between the acrylic
and the fiberglass shell structure. This is due to
the fact that acrylic is just about the hardest
plastic and it is extremely "slick" and smooth on
the surface. "It is similar to bonding to silicone
or oil covered material." In the 1980's the most
successful spa company at building fiberglass backed
acrylic spas was Pacific Marquis from Oregon. I
asked the number one spa shell repair person in
Colorado what he thought of the "PacMar" (as we
called them) shells. His comment was he hardly ever
sees one, because they don't seem to de-laminate or
crack much. At that time they seemed to hold up
better than anyone's shells. Even before the modern
bonding agents were available they managed to get
the fiberglass to stay in contact.
From what I understand it required a lot of handwork
on the shell to prepare it for the fiberglass. They
sanded and chemically etched the acrylic to create a
series of tiny hills and valleys and rough surface
for the fiberglass to bond to. I believe that the
first layer was carefully applied hand laid sheets
of fiberglass cloth pressed into a coating of resin
and catalyst. These were some of the best spas you
could own. I used to keep a 1988 Pac Mar in my
store to show people. It had set outside for
15 years at that time, in Colorado(!) and the shell
Today you will still hear cheaply made, full foam,
spa companies telling spa shoppers that acrylic spas
crack and de-laminate. That is no longer true for
most all of the companies using vinyl ester resin
bonding methods. The "de-lamination" is a
thing from the past.
Acrylic is the best surface material available today
for spas. It has the most history for longevity and
durability. A structured fiberglass shell is
required to have a thermal pane type of spa.
So how did I learn all of this? I read articles that
I got from salesmen and from newspapers. I
interviewed many service guys and pool and spa
surface repair people, and I learned by looking and
examining all the spas that I repaired, looking for
what works and what doesn't. I even talked
with several spa factory owners who have a lot of
"most of the
design concepts used in the spa industry now
started in 1982 and have not changed at all,
until The Spa Specialist came along."
Then I started looking outside the spas industry for
better design and engineering information, because
most of the design concepts used in the spa industry
now started in 1982 and have not changed at all,
until I came along.
Most spas "cavitate" to some degree.
Cavitation is where the pump suction side is blocked
by filters or by too small of plumbing pipe or by
too many turns on the pipes.
As the pump is pulling in the water a vacuum is
created. When you have warm water and
artificially (by the restricted suctions) elevate it
to equivalent to an altitude in atmosphere of 20,000
feet of vacuum. That vacuum when extreme will turn
the water to vapor. The temperature of spa
water also helps. Basically at high altitudes
(lowered pressure) water boils at a lower
temperature. A spa with blocked suctions
creates extreme vacuum. Water pumps DO pump
water, NOT water vapor, so this beats the pumps and
harms the motors by overheating them. It also
destroys jet pressure therapy.
"Because I was
new to the spa industry, I was beginning to
wonder why consumers were buying these badly
When I first saw a set of filters that were caved in
on the sides, I could not believe it was
possible. There were no design books that said
to build a spa that way.
One day while I was working the counter at the
Denver Hot tub store, The Colorado Hot Tub Exchange,
a fellow brought in a set of two filters that he
placed on the counter. They looked like "hour
glasses" with the sides all caved in. I turned
to my boss and said; "how is that possible?"
He said; "they were "H## Sp###g filters" and he had
"seen that before".
Apparently H## Sp###g is the only Spa Company who
does that nonsense to their customers. (For one
reason only: cheap manufacturing.) To me it
was a "sin" to do that to customers.
Because I was new to the spa industry, I was
beginning to wonder why consumers were buying these
badly engineered tubs. Everybody was telling
me that H## Sp###g was a good company, but I have
never thought so, from the first day I was
introduced to them in the repair business. I
have talked with many spa repair people across the
country and all of them think these spas are bad,
pain in the rear, to fix. The common
complaints are the cost for parts and fixing leaks
is a terrible experience and the ridiculous tiny
circulation pump or "circ pump" as the people in the
trade call it.
time I saw a tiny "circ pump", I said to
myself: "What is that doing on a spa?". because
"it looked ridiculous to me."
The first time I saw a tiny "circ pump", I said to
myself; "What is that doing on a spa?";
because, "it looked ridiculous to me".
I have written many factual articles on what I have
learned about them, including a part in the Q&A page. The
articles on filtering
and the ANSI article as
well as on filtering
correctly. My article of "Low Flow No Go" was
published in a trade magazine and I got calls from
ethical spa factory presidents thanking me for it.
I don't know of anything more worthless than a pump
that does so little and is sold with such
implications and nonsense. I have spoken with
many service people and they all "like them". One
fellow said that he "put his kid through college by
fixing them." I had a customer tell me that
the owner of a spa store in his area said the same
So, with a background of fixing spas and seeing the
good and the bad of spas and spa designs I went out
looking for a spa company to get spas for our store,
which we had planned to open March 1, 1997.
What a difficult job that was! You had to have been
there to see all the poor products. Everyone
was using cheap Vico ; "uprated" pumps and the
controls were a hodge podge of mediocrity. The
spa industry had just come out of a recession (like
now, the worst recession ever 2006 to 2012 today)
and the spas showed it.
"It can only
go so far before consumers start telling all
their friends "what junk hot tubs are."
They kept making them cheaper in order to sell at
lower prices and maintain some profits. It can
only go so far before consumers start telling all
their friends "what junk hot tubs are." (Well!
written in 2008 and spa stores are dropping like
flies on RAID. It is not a coincidence. With
the economy and the reputation of crappy hot tubs,
no wonder? Over 150 spa factories and builders are
gone, and all of the rest have been sold, some even
twice now. )
The other problem was spa companies were copying H##
Sp###g in order to use their sales pitch. We
found out that the PacMar store in Loveland, CO was
for sell. It sounded really good so all of us
took a trip to see it. When I walked in the
showroom, I could not find any PacMar spas, I saw
copy cat full foam with ABS crap, with a M#rq%$#s is
logo on it. Thin ABS/ Acrylic with full
foam, no air injection, cheap Vico 48 frame pumps
running "hotter than hell" and a tiny circ
pump. I thought to myself (and told Sandy
later): "The devil owns M#rq%$#s Spas now." It
was a poor product in the theme of H$t $pr#nG#
Spas. I called up my friend who worked at the
Westminster M#rq%$#s store and asked him how the
spas worked. They were so poorly designed that
they constantly froze the jet pumps, because when
the circ pump was heating the spa, no water was
moving in the jet pumps. So, they froze.
I was talking with him and he said: "Oh! Yea I just
had a customer's spa freeze last night." He
also informed me that the circ pump "kept seizing"
and that was also causing freeze damage. He
told me they they had a "very hard time keeping the
spa water clean on the showroom models.
He told me that he was leaving the M#rq%$#s
store because of the poor quality spas. I used to
work with him at the Coleman store. (M#rq%$#s seemed
to get smarter and now have a better product, but I
could never sell them until they keep progressing
and become a thermal closed design; getting rid of
diverter valves that fall apart and make
noise.) I recently talked at length with an ex
M#rq%$#s executive and he told me all the regrets
they had over their intense efforts to copy the H$t
$p###g plan, including their marketing
programs. It was a huge failure and almost
caused the demise of the company with all the
warranty issues. I see it as a win for greed,
to destroy something that was a pure work of art and
craftsmanship from the original people who created
PacMarqs. I know how hard it is to make a good
product and I appreciate what they had back in the
just to thank me for the "only real hot tub and
spa information". "
We finally found a spa company in Ohio that was
making the best product I could find for the money,
Hercules Spas. I was elated when I flew out to
see these spas. They were comfortable and very
well made. They used Waterway equipment and
Hercules controls. Hercules had been in
business for 38 years at that time. Great
shells! There were no better spas at that
time. We still see them and service them today
and they look great. I am proud to have sold
them and our customers still thank me for the
Hercules Spas. Now 16 years later I still get
email from the owners. Shells holding up great. Some
replacement pumps and controls, but the idea was to
have a product that could be repaired.
In the summer of 97 I put up the SpaSpecialist.com
website. About 20 years ago, this month, when the
Internet was very young, I set up this web
site. I didn't know much about HTML, and how
this all worked, but I knew it was something
great. I had no idea that The Spa Specialist
was going to become the " Oldest and Best Internet
Spa Company". We quickly became number one on
the search engines for "hot tubs". Now you
have to look under "quality hot tubs".
When I first put up the site, I used Word Perfect
for the Mac on my old Performa, using a 14.4-K modem
and it took "forever" for the pictures to
load. The pages were crude by today's
standards, but they had a lot of content for people
to learn from as they do now. Only now the
articles are many and my research has gotten deeper
into the thermodynamics and hydraulics of
I thought that the web site would help to educate
the folks in the Denver metro area. It did
that; but I was totally surprised at the numbers of
people I talked to from all across the US and from
Europe, even South Africa. Many called just to
thank me for the "only real hot tub and spa
One day about two months after the site was up and
running, a fellow from Vermont called and I chatted
with him for about an hour about the spas in his
area. I had no intention of selling him
a spa. He called again a few weeks later after
shopping the local Vermont spa stores and we
discussed spas at length again. It was on the
third call, about three weeks later, that he asked
me: "Have you thought about shipping a spa out
I told him that I had thought about it, because of
all the phone calls from out of state, but I had no
idea how to go about shipping them and delivering
them. To make this story shorter, he and I
both worked together and figured out how to get a
spa shipped and delivered. It takes a bit of
extra work to pull that off. Since I
have never been afraid of hard work, we started
selling more and more spas, one by one; to customers
all over the country and we learned what it takes
and what it costs to do that. It was averaging
over $1,000 per spa, even when we doubled the spas
on the truck. When you consider the quality of
products we have to offer, and the low prices for
them. The customers have always been more than
willing to wait and to pay for the cost of shipping
and delivery. (before the fall of the industry
we use our own trucks and crew as much as possible
to deliver the spas. We did it because it is
more economical and the service is first class. Now
we ship direct from Rotterdam, NL and still have
lower prices on our spas. )
We sold the heck out of those Hercules spas and
still have many satisfied Hercules spa owners.
In late 98 I found out that the owner, and president
had died (a while back) and the son an accountant
had taken control. They basically ruined the
spas and we did not have the time or the money to
rebuild them. I was terribly depressed at that
time. It looked like The Spa Specialist was a goner,
because all of the other spas I researched were
junky and I could not, ethically, sell them.
Hercules spas disappeared quickly after that.
Who would have thought that a 41-year-old company
would go away so quickly?
How Haven Spas
Whenever I get depressed about something, I start
working. I never give up. The sure cure
for depression is to work at something you enjoy.
At that time I had no products to sell that excited
me, so I started going through all my files on spa
factories. It was grueling work. I would
find a company that sounded promising only to find
out they were doing stupid designs or short cuts to
their spas. It seemed hopeless :(.
One day I was going through my files again and I
found these photos taken of the backs of some
spas. A fellow had dropped in for a few
minutes about four months earlier and talked briefly
with me and left the photos. It was an odd
sales presentation, because the brochures were
awful, but the photos revealed something very
interesting to me. It was a smaller spa
factory in Anderson, CA.
I took out a magnifying glass and examined the
photos like "Shirlock Holmes". I was impressed
with the construction and the parts. I called
to arrange a visit to the factory and discuss
It just so happened that we were delivering our last
Hercules spa in Watsonville, CA and that was only a
five-hour trip to Anderson, CA,
impressed me was the construction of the spas."
When I arrived at the factory, I noticed that it was
out in the country, near farmland. It was an
old wood mill that was converted into a spa
factory. It was not a brand new shiny steel
building, but it was more than adequate.
What impressed me was the construction of the
spas. I asked the owner Rob, why he was using
2x4's instead of 2x2 frames like other spa
companies. He said that they had too many
problems in shipping. I asked him why he was
using 56 frame motors. He said the "48 frame
motors over heat all the time." I asked him
why he used the Acrylic with vinyl ester resin and
hand rolled fiberglass shell. He said because he
tried other shells before and it was
"disastrous". I saw many things I liked,
but the spas were still not exactly what I wanted.
He had learned the "hard way" what it takes to make
a good spa and his basic design concepts follow
mine. I was elated that we could come to terms
about our spas. Plus he was and still is a
really nice man and it was a family business, not
some screwed up large corporation with a lot of
wasted human resources. His factory is very
efficient and his overhead was low, so that is the
combination for quality. (The Haven Spas that
are getting older now, 19 years, are a testament to
the joint efforts of Rob and Me. We take what
he builds to my designs and refine them, each on is
custom made and "tweaked" to run perfectly.)
"So, even if
we delivered a Haven spa to the house next door
to the *Phoenix dealer at that time, it is a
Haven Spa built to our design specifications,
exactly and that dealer could not have it."
I gave him a list of things I needed to build a spa
to my specifications and he said he could do
it. I asked him about private label on
our spas for several reasons. I did not want
to step on his dealer's territory, and I did not
want anyone else to have our spas, since it was my
designs. It took a lot of work to get them the
way I want, and I am not going to give that
away. So, even if we delivered a Haven spa to
the house next door to the Phoenix dealer at that
time, it is a Haven Spa built to our design
specifications, exactly and that dealer cannot have
it. The function of the jets, the cooling
system and the heating system is different.
The air controls and turbo
air are different. The drawings for the
plumbing layout is different. The cabinet
construction is different. The control box is the
highest grade there is. It is a Haven Spa!
(Now, 2010, it is a HavenSpa build in our own
factory in Holland! From "scratch". And nobody has
those molds, because we own them. )
Right now, today, you cannot find a better made spa
nor a better designed spa. You can sit any spa
side by side in a "Spa
Challenge" and the other spa will loose the
test. I guarantee it.
To me the spa industry is about 35 years behind the
times in the basic designs. Basically that
makes Haven Spas 35 years ahead of them.
We only want Haven Spas to go out that are as
perfect as possible. Right now the wait for a
Haven is nearly 6 months in the USA, if you order in
April, but that is for a reason. There is a
back log at the factory and each Haven Spa is a
special order item, custom made. And it takes some
time to ship from Rotterdam port.
*Phoenix is now closed. The owner retired and we
bought the rights to and the molds of all the spas.
"If you want
it fast and low priced, we can't do that; never
will I allow junk like that."
If you want it quality at a low price, with custom
attention to detail, we can do that, but you need to
learn to wait or buy a model we have in stock, but
it will still take a month to get even if it is in
stock, because you have to wait for a trip in your
direction or pay extra for shipping. We tell
people up front, that if you want it fast don't
bother to order a Haven spa and I mean that. I
am through with trying to rush spas, because I am a
people pleaser. Then find that there is
something that was missed, or we had to hold back
the spa for more details and refinements.
An old time salesman once told me: "If you
want fresh oats, we have that. If you want
used oats that have already been through the horse,
go to the other stores."
I changed it to: "If you want used oats that
have already been through the male bovine, you will
have to go to the other spa stores."
If you want "fresh oats that have not been eaten by
we offer that."
The sad fact
is, most shoppers are like this, otherwise sales
people would not make so much money.
My articles and web sites have been read by millions
of people all over the world. I estimate based
on an average of 1100 individuals a day reading the
site that it has been deeply read by at least
10,000,000 different people. All of the
defamation we get from "poor losers and mentally ill
people" creates interest and we find people with
intelligence that way.
Only unintelligent, emotionally driven
people buy on emotion, and only unintelligent
emotionally driven people will listen to these,
ridiculous, stories and actually believe them.
They wind up buying some mediocre spa on some
fantasy sales pitch, designed to push emotional
"buttons", and the fit their customer profile,
and not a HavenSpas customer profile. I used to feel
sorry for them as victims, but if they don't have
the capacity to understand the facts and can be sold
on emotions and buy on impulse, then they are not
our customers. The sad fact is most shoppers
are like this, otherwise sales people would not make
so much money.
Our good record with our customers stands as a
testimonial to our ethics and the products.
Our customers are much more intelligent than your
average shopper. We have three customers out
of thousands who are really dissatisfied, and the
dissatisfaction is warranted. It was a series
of screw ups that lead to this, and it was when we
had employees that were not as competent as I had
hoped they were. There is not much you can do
to rescue a botched spa customer. We did,
however, make it right with even those customers,
but it took some time.
However, the near perfection in customer support and
service we have done, makes three seem
OK. It is still not OK to me that even
one customer has had poor results from their
interaction with Haven Spas.
I was posting on a message forum about the sales
tactics used in hot tub stores one time and how
disgusting it was. I reported that I took
sales seminars and left feeling ethically violated
by these "teachers". There is only one seminar
that I took was based on making friends with
customers and developing a long term relationship
with them. All the rest were "psychological
mind games" used to manipulate people's emotions to
buy and buy NOW! This is what is taught to
this day in many sales seminars and you need to be
very aware of these tactics and NOT BUY from these
fools, so that your children will not have to endure
and deal with this. If you stop buying from
these slick ethically challenged people, they will
stop teaching this crap.
When you buy from liars, you are supporting this
degradation. The problem for you is that they
seem so nice and they don't believe they are telling
you lies. It doesn't matter if you fall in
love with them, don't buy on impulse and never buy
at home shows and carnival like displays, unless you
already know what you are buying.
This salesman came on this forum for hot tub
consumers and admonished me for telling people the
truth about his sales tactics. He thought I
was the crazy one for caring about consumers.
Really! He said; "Why are to doing this?
This will reduce sales in hot tub stores and is not
Since when is
the truth a bad thing???
This is what you are up against as a spa
shopper. If you take the time to read my site
and understand what I am saying, you will be better
off in all your purchases; not just hot tubs.
I teach people to think about what they are
promoting and supporting. To focus on the
actual product, and not the sale pitch from that
"sweet talking" sales person. Consumers need
to grow up and get real. If you have emotional
problems that you think can be solved by buying
things, you need help.
"If you have emotional problems that you think
can be solved by buying things, you need help."
This nonsense is used all over because, you as
consumers fall for this "happy horse
poop". These vultures are all over the
message forums and are professional sales
representatives working for the spa companies.
They get paid to use marketing rhetoric on the
suckers on the forums. (We do not allow any people
who show even slight ethical problems on our forum.)
Hot tubs are machines, they are not anything
else. They follow the laws of physics and all
of science. Yet, the last thing a spas sales
person wants to know is that they have been selling
a poorly made product for years and years.
I got sued by one of the sleaziest spa companies on
earth, This company is so bad that other sleazy spa
companies look good. And other spa companies
complain about how this company has effected the spa
industry as a whole by their terrible
reputation. The normal quote about this
company from service people is: "They may make crap,
but they sure sell a lot of it."
Yet, the last
thing a spas sales person wants to know is that
they have been selling a poorly made product for
years and years.
One of my good customers in Southern California, has
several friends who own these crappy spas that are
not running and cost more to repair than they are
worth. He told me that when he said he was
looking for a spa, they told him, to "never buy a
hot tub. We bought what was supposed to be the best
and it has been nothing but repairs and problems."
Being an intelligent person, who wanted a hot tub,
he did the research, took his time, went to all the
local stores as I told him to do, then contacted
some of our customers and has not had any issues
with his Haven. It just runs and runs and his
electric bill "hardly shows any difference".
I really don't
know how I became the moral voice for the
consumers of the hot tub industry
I really don't know how I became the moral voice for
the consumers of the hot tub industry, but what
started out as a love of hot tubs has turned into a
"crusade" to stop greedy "ethically challenged" hot
tub companies who have no love for humanity.
The lust for money is the source of all sorts of
Please, don't fall for the sales garbage of slick
corporations, and "ethically challenged" sales
people. Some of these "ethically challenged"
sales people actually believe they are doing
something good, but that just equates to how much
they don't know about spas, have blinders
on. They even promote themselves as
"Christian" while they rip people off. People
will often times delude themselves into ideas like a
cheap piece of plastic stuffed with foam and three
way diverter valves with cheap 48 frame pumps and tiny bullet jets is a
good thing to sell for 4 times what it is
If you want to stop this social degradation from
going on farther and help stop seeing your children
ripped off or worse having your children learn this
sort of "capitalism", then just continue to support
and buy spas and things from these people.
What legacy do you want to leave for your children
and grand children and great grand children and so
on???? Can't we stop this crap now?
How is it possible for a person to not have a
conscience, or care about the effects their words
and actions have on others. These nice
(sarcasm) sales people seem to be everywhere.
Why can 't we learn to "Love One Another", the only
commandment that counts. It is also the only
commandment that is common to about 100 different
religions that I have looked into.
March 2011. update:
Well we are now making the Haven Spas in Europe and
we have made them to an even higher standard,
because we control all facets of the design,
manufacturing and all the quality controls.
The new spas are just amazing. We had to bring
the thermally closed design up a few notches because
the cost of electricity is far more than the
US. We have now data on 60 Euro cents a
day. ON a 400 gallon spa.
You can still buy a Haven Spa but it is going to
cost you more now. You waited too long, or maybe
just long enough for us to nearly perfect (I don't
think perfect is possible, and I have been working
on that for a long time.) Spa. Quieter, Less
costly to own, more powerful therapy. We even
have models with dual multi-speed air pumps
now. We have left the competition in the
"dust" so to speak. They are so far behind us
on quality they will never catch up, before we own
the European market.